Francis C. wrote:
I haven’t met anyone working for a large or reasonably-large company
who is thinking of mandating anything but Java. Python is generally
considered highly suspect and Ruby isn’t on the radar at all. Ajax is seen
by many as a dangerous and subversive practice that must not be allowed to
take root. If you have examples to the contrary, I’d be really
interested to
hear them.
Google? (Python and AJAX)
Joel VanderWerf wrote:
…
Google? (Python and AJAX)
Microsoft has been using AJAX since 1998 or so.
Not so much Java. 
“Francis C.” [email protected] writes:
state-of-the-art in computer languages, IMHO). As such it neatly fits the
Lisp category.
Except just about all Lisps are dynamically-typed, not lazy and not
side-effect free either… Haskell would make a good addition to the
taxonomy on itself.
GOOG isn’t a big company ;-).
MSFT is, though. But they don’t really count for this discussion because
they have a dog in the fight.
Except just about all Lisps are dynamically-typed, not lazy and not
side-effect free either… Haskell would make a good addition to the
taxonomy on itself.–
Christian N. [email protected] http://chneukirchen.org
I guess you could say that. I used to write compilers for a living, so
perhaps my perspective is different. To me the essential trait that
distiguishes the Lisp-like family is that they’re all based on
lambda-calculus. Everything Algol-like (including Ruby) is basically a
Turing machine. SQL and similar languages are off to the side, and
Fortran I
guess would have to be classed as Turing-like. We’re way off thread
here, so
if you want to have the last word, be my guest ;-).
On 7/9/06, Francis C. [email protected] wrote:
Haskell is a strict, lazy functional language (and pretty close to the
who is thinking of mandating anything but Java. Python is generally
considered highly suspect and Ruby isn’t on the radar at all. Ajax is seen
by many as a dangerous and subversive practice that must not be allowed to
take root. If you have examples to the contrary, I’d be really interested to
hear them.
Boeing’s recognized that Python has significant advantages over Java
for some things. The company certainly isn’t mandating Java.
Joe
On 7/10/06, Francis C. [email protected] wrote:
lambda-calculus. Everything Algol-like (including Ruby) is basically a
Turing machine. SQL and similar languages are off to the side, and Fortran I
guess would have to be classed as Turing-like. We’re way off thread here, so
if you want to have the last word, be my guest ;-).
From what little I’ve seen of Smalltalk it looks pretty lispy to me -
why does it get a category of its own?
martin
On 7/9/06, Francis C. [email protected] wrote:
I haven’t met anyone working for a large or reasonably-large company
who is thinking of mandating anything but Java. Python is generally
considered highly suspect and Ruby isn’t on the radar at all. Ajax
is seen
by many as a dangerous and subversive practice that must not be
allowed to
take root. If you have examples to the contrary, I’d be really
interested to
hear them.
Comcast is laying some serious AJAX groundwork these days. We still
do a lot of Java, but I’ve done Ruby for smaller projects already.
-Mat
In Python you have to sub-class int:
class MyInteger(int):
def is_even(self):
return (self % 2) == 0
a = MyInteger(3)
a.is_even() -> False
a = MyInteger(4)
a.is_even() -> True
It’s not the same as in Ruby, I can see that, but it is very posible.
Mat S. wrote:
Comcast is laying some serious AJAX groundwork these days. We still
do a lot of Java, but I’ve done Ruby for smaller projects already.
-Mat
I know of several organizations that have thrown Java out because of
excessive memory usage on the servers. What I don’t know is whether the
alternatives (PHP and ASP-non-.NET) are any more respectful of one’s
memory budget than Java.
–
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
On 7/10/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [email protected] wrote:
I know of several organizations that have thrown Java out because of
excessive memory usage on the servers. What I don’t know is whether the
alternatives (PHP and ASP-non-.NET) are any more respectful of one’s
memory budget than Java.
That’s really interesting. Are these big companies that have given up on
major projects?
In my experience, the only thing that compares to Java in its desire to
be
the only major application running on a server is Oracle (which seems to
eat
as much shared memory as it get its paws on). We sell an appliance
product
and have always resisted installing a JVM on it, despite the value it
would
bring, because of the memory issue.
“Francis C.” [email protected] writes:
guess would have to be classed as Turing-like. We’re way off thread here, so
if you want to have the last word, be my guest ;-).
I didn’t write a compiler worth that name yet, but I read a fair lot
about compiling Lisp, Scheme and Haskell. All I can say, a good
Haskell compiler is pretty different to a good Lisp compiler.
“Martin DeMello” [email protected] writes:
distiguishes the Lisp-like family is that they’re all based on
lambda-calculus. Everything Algol-like (including Ruby) is basically a
Turing machine. SQL and similar languages are off to the side, and Fortran I
guess would have to be classed as Turing-like. We’re way off thread here, so
if you want to have the last word, be my guest ;-).From what little I’ve seen of Smalltalk it looks pretty lispy to me -
why does it get a category of its own?
Because of the environment?
Although you now could claim Lisp is image-based too…
Francis C. wrote:
That’s really interesting. Are these big companies that have given up on
major projects?
The one instance I’m most familiar with was a Linux/Apache/PHP project
using a legacy database. They were using Java for some essential
functionality but the real guts of the app was PHP. They pulled Java out
and moved the functionality somewhere else, but I don’t recall where.
In my experience, the only thing that compares to Java in its desire
to be
the only major application running on a server is Oracle (which seems
to eat
as much shared memory as it get its paws on). We sell an appliance
product
and have always resisted installing a JVM on it, despite the value it
would
bring, because of the memory issue.
Yeah … last time I looked the minimum JVM was 32 MB, and I’m not sure
that would support more than one thread.
–
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
Francis C. wrote:
I haven’t met anyone working for a large or reasonably-large company
who is thinking of mandating anything but Java. Python is generally
considered highly suspect and Ruby isn’t on the radar at all. Ajax is seen
I guess Disney qualifies as a reasonably-large company.
I saw on the Python Success Stories site (or somewhere else, its a
while back), that Disney uses Python heavily. There are also a good
many other success stories of companies using Python, don’t know how
many of those are big. Univ. of St. Andrews, Scotland, and Astra-Zeneca
(a pharma company) are two others I remember being in that list. The
site was down just now when I checked, not sure if its down permanently
or temporarily - http://www.pythonology.org/success. Try the Google
cache.
Is there any such site for Ruby (a Ruby Success Stories site)? If not,
might be a good idea to start one. I’d be happy to try to find stories
to contribute, since I do a good amount of this sort of searching as
part of my work.
Anyway, it would be a good thing in general, IMO, for the Ruby
community, to have a Ruby Success Stories site. I think Ruby is a great
language and, while I’m sure there are a lot of people promoting it,
this additional way could help (if its not there already - I don’t know
as of now). Increasing the visibility and credibility of Ruby to the
corporate world may be a good thing - it would encourage them to use it
more, implying potentially more jobs for Rubyists, whether as employees
or contractors/consultants.
Update: I tried the Google cache for “Python Success Stories”.
According to it, these (large) companies use Python:
AstraZeneca
Philips
Honeywell
Industrial Light and Magic (company that created visual effects for
Star Wars)
The New York Stock Exchange
The Space Shuttle (I know, not a company, but big:)
US Navy
US Dept. of Agriculture
Vasudev
Hi –
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, vasudevram wrote:
Anyway, it would be a good thing in general, IMO, for the Ruby
community, to have a Ruby Success Stories site. I think Ruby is a great
language and, while I’m sure there are a lot of people promoting it,
this additional way could help (if its not there already - I don’t know
as of now). Increasing the visibility and credibility of Ruby to the
corporate world may be a good thing - it would encourage them to use it
more, implying potentially more jobs for Rubyists, whether as employees
or contractors/consultants.
Google for “Ruby success stories” and you’ll quickly find:
http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/RealWorldRuby
David
Hi,
Thanks! That’s a fair-sized and interesting list.
Vasudev
I won’t argue with your point, with which I basically agree, but I would
like to clarify something. You’re quoting something I said a long time
ago,
about how large companies will not mandate anything but Java. That’s
not
to say that all large companies actually mandate anything, and it
doesn’t
mean that no large company uses Python (or more precisely, tolerates
Python). It does mean there is a widespread predisposition to believe
Java
is the “safest” development language.
On 2006-07-16 18:44:29 +0200, “vasudevram” [email protected] said:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, vasudevram wrote:
Google for “Ruby success stories” and you’ll quickly find:
http://dablog.rubypal.com => D[avid ]A[. ]B[lack’s][ Web]log
[email protected] => me
btw ‘Ajax is seen’… [quoted] Ajax cannot be compared to Python,
Ruby or Java…
it’s not a language…
Josselin wrote:
On 2006-07-16 18:44:29 +0200, “vasudevram” [email protected] said:
Hi,
btw ‘Ajax is seen’… [quoted] Ajax cannot be compared to Python,
Ruby or Java…
it’s not a language…
Just FYI - that bit (about Ajax) was not stated by me but by the person
to whom I was replying (Gianfranco, I think). I’m aware that Ajax is
not a language … 
The mistake is probably due to all the quoted/earlier messages - makes
for messy and difficult reading …
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