Isn't twitter bootstrap for amateurish front end work?

We use twitter bootstrap as it was recommended by a developer here last
year. Everything done in bootstrap kind of has a similar look to it. I
feel
like I am a stronger back end developer. I have alot of basic
understanding
of HTML/CSS, but it seems there are specialists in front end development
and people like that would never use something like bootstrap, nor would
they need to. We don’t have a front end development team here and we are
supposed to design everything. I kind of get some negative feedback on
my
front end skills, but I feel like on the other hand, I’m just using this
bootstrap thing as a kind of crutch otherwise I would be sort of
challenged
to create anything that looked half way professional.

Front end guys, especially front-end ninjas mostly don’t use CSS
framework
such as bootstrap and foundation, because they don’t want any limitation
on
their UI/UX design, for example button element design on frameworks
looks
typical, although it can be easily customised. Css framework is not just
for amateur, I find it very helpful to speed up development.

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Jedrin [email protected] wrote:

to create anything that looked half way professional.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


<%= rian %>

Founder - CTO
http://autre.co ~ @autresystems http://twitter.com/autresystems

On Friday, July 12, 2013 11:45:34 AM UTC-4, just-a-noob wrote:

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://autre.co ~ @autresystems http://twitter.com/autresystems

I do both front end and back end work, although I was definitely
stronger
at front end when I started. I don’t use CSS frameworks, but I do have
a
set of css files I usually start with as my foundation and I now use
SCSS
quite a bit. Frameworks are very functional and can produce very
professional sites, but they carry a lot of overhead and limit design
flexibility. Most Rails books seem to be written by back end developers
and usually don’t give this much attention. I can recommend one book,
*The
Rails View, *which does a good job if you are interested in expanding
your
skills in this area.

On Jul 12, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Jedrin [email protected] wrote:

We use twitter bootstrap as it was recommended by a developer here last year.
Everything done in bootstrap kind of has a similar look to it. I feel like I am a
stronger back end developer. I have alot of basic understanding of HTML/CSS, but
it seems there are specialists in front end development and people like that would
never use something like bootstrap, nor would they need to. We don’t have a front
end development team here and we are supposed to design everything. I kind of get
some negative feedback on my front end skills, but I feel like on the other hand,
I’m just using this bootstrap thing as a kind of crutch otherwise I would be sort
of challenged to create anything that looked half way professional.

Fascinating concept. Here you disparage use of a framework for the front
end design, yet you’re also on a list that is all about a framework for
the backend. Which level of amateur is okay, which isn’t? While many
folks will tell you that starting out with frameworks is a bad way to
learn something, that you should learn how things work, that just
doesn’t seem to be the case with Rails. And yet when it comes to
designing and laying out a website, no frameworks must mean a better
design?

Web design, like all other visual design, has a set of rules and
conventions. Having a framework support them is useful, and it may also
mean some people never go beyond that point, as their interests lie
elsewhere. In using something such as bootstrap, you may indeed have
something of a “Paint by Numbers” approach, but bootstrap is not
actually that limiting.

Let me make an analogy. As a watercolorist, I don’t set out to find
minerals and what not, grind my own pigments, and mix my own paints. I
also don’t find sable and rabbit and make my own brushes from their fur.
Nor do I make my own paper, stretch it, and so on. So you see, in that
regard, I can take advantage of what the modern world provides and just
get on with painting.

I think your use of “amateurish” is also interesting, in that you seem
to disparage the term. The word amateur derives and means someone who
loves what they do. I write software and design web sites both because I
am good at it and get paid for it, and because I absolutely love doing
it.

If you feel your front end design skills are lacking, delve into
bootstrap and see what is going on there, under the hood. But also start
to look at visual design as a discipline and read about why some things
work well and other things don’t.

Bootstrap provides an exceptionally clean, simple front for a web site.
It is an excellent starting point, and has a fair bit of depth to it.

One final thing I’ll say here is that there has been quite a lot of
effort spent on individuation of web sites to no avail. The designs
might be interesting, but unless the site itself is about visual design,
there will be little to hold any one’s attention if it’s all style and
no substance. Every person I’ve known who has anything to say about
web design and development says the same thing: content is the most
important aspect; if your design fully supports that, excellent. If your
design gets in the way, people will simply leave. If your design is
jarring, or looks like it came out of geocities or the old myspace, or
even 1993 mosaic, then people will laugh as they point it out. Using
bootstrap is a hella lot better than that.