Rails release dates are in no way keeping you from learning Ruby or
Rails 2. Stop whining.
Like I told the last guy, no one is holding a gun to your head. Go
play with PHP or ASP if the Rails release dates don’t suite you.
Release dates? There is no release date!
And why are you talking about learning ruby and rails2? We are talking
about rails3 here! Did you post to the wrong thread?
Ever heard about barriers to exit at college? Paid professional work
requires more than just “playing” with a new language like you suggest.
I am not playing with anything but your girlfriend.
Yeah that’s your dream! If only it could come true.
Okay now go play with your chromosomes while we talk about customers
falling on our back, and development being held back.
Is the no release dates a habit in the ruby/rails ecosystem? Because the
developer of TextMate fell into this trap and now he suffers from it.
Even Debian is moving away from that paradigm!
Marcelo de Moraes S. wrote:
Rails is Rails because of the attitude behind it. It is opinionated,
not only the software, but the process behind it, too.
Opinionated is fine. Noncommunicative is not, in my opinionated
estimation. 
Do we complain
when Blizzard says a new title will be done ‘when it’s done’?
No. And I wouldn’t complain if the Rails team said that – we all know
that quality software takes time. But what was said was that there
would be a release in “a couple of days”, and then there was neither a
release nor further communication (apparently, till now?).
I would
not promise anything to my clients based on unreleased software, by
the way!
Nor would I.
We already have a track of releases for Rails, so I’m sure it
won’t be a Rails Nuke’em forever.
I’m not.
Just enjoy life and be more patient.
I do enjoy life. I’m very patient right up to the point where someone
promises a specific timeframe.
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Fernando P. [email protected]
wrote:
Release dates? There is no release date!
I’m well aware of this fact. This thread is full of cry-babies who
seem to think there is a release date, or that one has passed already.
And why are you talking about learning ruby and rails2? We are talking
about rails3 here! Did you post to the wrong thread?
No. There is nothing wrong with learning Rails 2 if you don’t
currently know Rails at all.
Ever heard about barriers to exit at college? Paid professional work
requires more than just “playing” with a new language like you suggest.
I work in genetics research at a medical university. I am presently
writing a Rails 3 application using Ruby 1.9.2-preview3. I am not
playing with anything but your girlfriend.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Fernando P. [email protected]
wrote:
Okay now go play with your chromosomes while we talk about customers
falling on our back, and development being held back.
Again, no one is stopping you from creating a Rails3 app. There is a
set of beta4 gems that are working fine for me and my colleagues. I
have found no real show-stoppers.
Is the no release dates a habit in the ruby/rails ecosystem?
It doesn’t matter. We have Rails2 and it works great. We have Rails3
beta4 and it works well enough to begin doing development. At some
point the 3.0 will arrive, but it’s no big deal if it’s not today.
Because the
developer of TextMate fell into this trap and now he suffers from it.
Even Debian is moving away from that paradigm!
Who cares? If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else.
They don’t care about your “business schedule” or whatever, and no one
here wants to hear you complain.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
and it’s now 24 July, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to get impatient
for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for
help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want
to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can’t
get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining
why the release was delayed?
To paraphrase:
What am I paying you guys for? I demand my money’s worth!
–
Alan G. - [email protected] - http://twitter.com/bigeasy
Robert C. wrote:
I heard the very same concern from that client about their project just
yesterday.
What promise? Citation would be nice.
–
Alan G. - [email protected] - http://twitter.com/bigeasy
Alan G. wrote:
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
and it’s now 24 July, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to get impatient
for a release or an explanation of the delay. Heck, if they asked for
help, they might get some, but this silence is bad if the core team want
to keep their credibility. Why should I trust a core team that can’t
get its act together to take 2 minutes to write a blog post explaining
why the release was delayed?
To paraphrase:
What am I paying you guys for? I demand my money’s worth!
Uh, what? That’s not what I meant at all. I’m not demanding my
“money’s worth”. In fact, I’m not demanding anything.
I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to point out what I pointed out: that
saying “we’ll have something in a couple of days” followed by 6 weeks of
silence reflects poorly on the core team. The core team may do what
they see fit with that information.
–
Alan G. - [email protected] - http://twitter.com/bigeasy
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
Again, no one is stopping you from creating a Rails3 app. There is a
set of beta4 gems that are working fine for me and my colleagues. I
have found no real show-stoppers.
You obviously don’t code in Rails. Google “invalid multibyte char
(US-ASCII)”. Rails 3 beta 4 is not yet fixed.
It doesn’t matter. We have Rails2 and it works great. We have Rails3
beta4 and it works well enough to begin doing development. At some
point the 3.0 will arrive, but it’s no big deal if it’s not today.
It’s painful to start a rails2 app, if in “a few days” rails3 gets
released, that will waste valuable time porting the new app to rails 3.
Time is money, maybe not when you “work” in a university though.
Who cares? If you are unhappy with Rails then use something else.
They don’t care about your “business schedule” or whatever, and no one
here wants to hear you complain.
As Marnen said don’t speak on behalf of the rails core team. I highly
doubt they disregard customers/users feedback! And if they do, their
business will collapse.
Pop quiz:
Greg D.'s statement “If you are unhappy with Rails then use
something else […] and no one here wants to hear you complain” is:
- Anti-democratic
- Against the 1st amendment of the United States Constitution
- Against article #19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
- All the above
Greg D. wrote:
[…]
They don’t care about your “business schedule” or whatever,
You’re not on the core team last I heard, so I doubt that you can claim
to speak for them.
and no one
here wants to hear you complain.
You don’t speak for the whole list either.
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly
terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work
that goes into Rails. Can I hear a “Hell yeah”?
At this huge code factory place I used to work (I forgot the name,
it’s been a while) we had three mailing lists where the devs were
encouraged to announce new features, feature changes, and bug fixes.
Just a short note like, “New Feature: Hal9000 can now read lips.”
Besides keeping everyone informed, it had the unexpected benefit
giving the devs that illusive sense of accomplishment, like when you
can check something off. A ton of “nice job” mails would come in and
you felt good about your work, even while filling out those *&%$! TPS
coversheets. Lighthouse alone doesn’t give us that. It’s good at
tracking bugs/issue but it doesn’t allow someone to see what’s going
on, have the pulse of the whole.
If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single
place, no one will care if it’s late as long as they have something to
tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few – can’t
please everybody.)
Just a thought.
Dee
Dee wrote:
I politely hinted at a similar question yesterday and got a similarly
terse an answer. Growing pains. I think everyone appreciates the work
that goes into Rails. Can I hear a “Hell yeah”?
HELL YEAH!
(Everything I’ve said here has been from the point of view of wanting
Rails to keep kicking ass.)
[…]
If the status was communicated more clearly, more often in a single
place, no one will care if it’s late as long as they have something to
tell their dev-team, managers and clients. (Well, very few – can’t
please everybody.)
Exactly. That’s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than
lateness.
Just a thought.
Dee
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
Fernando P. wrote:
[…]
Pop quiz:
Greg D.'s statement “If you are unhappy with Rails then use
something else […] and no one here wants to hear you complain” is:
- Anti-democratic
- Against the 1st amendment of the United States Constitution
- Against article #19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
- All the above
Probably 1 only (and inaccurate). Certainly none of the others. I’m as
frustrated as anybody else here, but I don’t think I’m being repressed.
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
Greg D. wrote:
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
[email protected] wrote:
Exactly. �That’s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than
lateness.
They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny
ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on:
Dashboard - rails
Bunch of fuÑking cry-babies. geez.
If name-calling is the best you can do, please don’t bother.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
–Â
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
Sent from my iPhone
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
[email protected] wrote:
Exactly. That’s what I meant about silence being more of an issue than
lateness.
They are in no way being silent and NOTHING is late. Take your whiny
ass over to the dashboard and you can see EXACTLY what is going on:
https://rails.lighthouseapp.com/dashboard
Bunch of fucking cry-babies. geez.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
[email protected] wrote:
If name-calling is the best you can do, please don’t bother.
Truth hurts.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
On 23 July 2010 21:47, Greg D. [email protected] wrote:
Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me.
…
Ooops, sorry. Wrong list
(Probably going to get banned for that)
Just curious, does anyone know if 3.0RC milestone in lighthouse a
correct list of the remaining bugs? I was watching it a few weeks ago
and they removed the milestone, but they added it back a few days
ago… only 2 tickets in the milestone right now, so it looks like its
close to finished. Maybe that will give you guys a warm fuzzy feeling
about 3.0… I personally don’t care what the version tag says.
I started converting my most complex app to Rails 3 about a month ago
with the expectation that the code was almost ready based on the blog
from dhh. I was planning on pulling the trigger for the production
switchover when RC was available. But now that I have been running on
beta4, I don’t see the point in waiting. My app has been tested
extensively and is running great on rails 3, and it really doesn’t
matter to me what the version label is if it works. There are going
to be outstanding tickets regardless of what version they are on… I
mean hell, 2.3.9 has 52 open tickets right now in LH. In my
experience (albeit, limited with one app on Rails 3), the code is
solid and you can figure out workarounds for any minor bug that you
might find. When RC or final 3.0 comes out I don’t really expect to
have to change much (if anything).
I understand the frustration since dhh said it would be ready in
“days” 
And I felt some of that frustration until I finished the
conversion and testing a few days ago. Start using Rails 3 now! You
will not regret it… there are plenty of people using it with no
problems including me. FYI… I saw gemcutter just completed their
conversion to Rails 3.
Greg D. wrote:
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
[email protected] wrote:
If name-calling is the best you can do, please don’t bother.
Truth hurts.
Which is why your name-calling didn’t hurt. It just saddened me,
because IMHO name-calling has no place on a forum such as this one – it
just cheapens the level of discourse and threatens the Rails community
that I think we all love.
And that’s as far as I’m going to take this issue. It’s off topic here,
and it’s hijacking an important thread.
–
Greg D.
destiney.com | gregdonald.com
–Â
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
[email protected]
Sent from my iPhone