seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?
t.
On 12/19/06, Trans [email protected] wrote:
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?t.
I agree with most of the reasons given but would like to add one.
I just recently posted (a month ago) what I think a most interesting
topic,
(search for HalfOrder if you are interested) I have not got a single
answer,
first I was disappointed than I just came to the calm solution that
(1) the topic is not interesting at all for others
and / or
(2) they do not like my style (I know its weird but I do not like to
look
at things from one angle only and I am willing to pay the price)
So I piped down a little 
I am still reading the list, but I have to
admit
I am missing the Bills, Jims, T’s (what’s your name;) Aras and even
Austins
(just kidding) too.
Cheers
Robert
P.S. And of course some time goes into Smalltalk right now, see below
“The real romance is out ahead and yet to come. The computer revolution
hasn’t started yet. Don’t be misled by the enormous flow of money into
bad
defacto standards for unsophisticated buyers using poor adaptations of
incomplete ideas.”
- Alan Kay
Trans wrote:
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?t.
insert Monster Mash casette
HELP VAMPIRES! OOOOOH!
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?
maybe they’re doing their Xmas shopping 
it’s not strange to be busy these days, you know.
best,
UG
Uma G.
On 12/19/06, Robert D. [email protected] wrote:
[snip]
T’s (what’s your name;)
[snip]
ts = “Guy Decoux”
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 02:50:51 -0000, Trans [email protected] wrote:
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?
Personally, I have cut back on reading the list lately, partly because
my
unborn daughter keeps threatening to emerge two months early, but also
because:
* There's a lot of religious ranting going on these days.
* I see too many echoes of comp.lang.elsewhere in certain responses.
* A lot of smart people whose posts I found most interesting no longer
seem to post.
I know that a lot of people are still on irc but I a) don’t have the
time
and b) say the dumbest things when I don’t get enough time to think
On 12/20/06, Simon S. [email protected] wrote:
But that is not Trans, or am I confused? Anyway thx for caring Simon!
I thaught T was Tom, anyway the important thing is the quality/content
of
his/her posts, and that is quite high.
So coming back to all that has been said (not only by Simon and it was
not
simple anyway;) I just would like to add my POV in slight favor of
splitting
the ML.
The conservatives’ reasons are valuable but I feel that the auto-dynamic
of
the ML just pushes us there…
Cheers
Robert
–
“The real romance is out ahead and yet to come. The computer revolution
hasn’t started yet. Don’t be misled by the enormous flow of money into
bad
defacto standards for unsophisticated buyers using poor adaptations of
incomplete ideas.”
- Alan Kay
Eric H. wrote:
b) belligerent newbies.
I think that it’s not just newbies, but newbies asking insensible
questions, normally involving excel. There’s also a lot of postings
along the lines of “I’ve written this code, can you write it better for
me” which is fair enough for an interesting bit of code, but normally
the response should be, without sounding rude, “read the documentation
or buy a ruby book”. Newbies want answers often before working out what
the question should be. And I’d consider myself a newbie on the way to
intermedion, but I’d never post a question like “ruby.exe doesn’t work
on my windows xp! tell me what to do!?”, or from a couple of pages down
the list “I need to save an Excel Spreadsheet with Ruby. I used the Save
AND SaveAs methods…” (What is it with excel? I’ve got no particular
problem with it, but it seems to be a magnet for the ignorant).
Jeremy
On Dec 18, 2006, at 18:50, Trans wrote:
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?
In the back-channels I’ve heard the following reasons for why long-
time readers of ruby-talk cut back:
a) signal:noise ratio too low.
b) belligerent newbies.
–
Eric H. - [email protected] - http://blog.segment7.net
I LIT YOUR GEM ON FIRE!
On 12/18/06, Trans [email protected] wrote:
seems like there’s been a steady drop off in experienced ruby users on
the list. is it me or has there really been some sort of migration
away?
I think many people are hanging out in localized groups now, because
of the “Too Much Email” issue and also the shift in the feel of
RubyTalk due to the influx of new users.
I still see some great conversations here, but as someone who was for
a short time a RubyTalk addict, I normally only scan the list once a
day or so, and spend the rest of the time hanging on IRC channels /
mailing lists for projects i’m involved in / interested in and also
user groups. I suspect similar for other folks in the community [0]
I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily, but I can see where
you’re coming from.
-greg
[0]
On 12/20/06, Geoff [email protected] wrote:
case.
Geoff.
What a great set of links. I especially liked this part: And for roughly
thirty years, almost any description of mailing lists of any length has
mentioned flaming, the tendency of list members to forgo standards of
public
decorum when attempting to communicate with some ignorant moron whose to
stupid to know how too spell and deserves to DIE, die a PAINFUL DEATH,
you
PINKO SCUMBAG!!!
Note the proper usage of to and too
On 2006-12-19, Eric H. [email protected] wrote:
b) belligerent newbies.
I’ve been reading quite a bit about these properties of online
communities lately. There’s a lot of material worth looking into if you
happen to have a bit of a deeper interest, like:
Clay Shirky’s “A Group is it’s Own Worst Enemy”
http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
Clay Shirky’s “Group as User: Flaming and the Design of Social Software”
http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_user.html
Kathy Sierra’s “How to Build a User Community: Part 1”
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/12/
how_to_build_a_.html
Oh, and I’m definitely a Ruby newb myself, but I’m learning, and this
mailing-list/Usenet-newsgroup/forum has proven a fantastic learning
resource. I hope that, one way or another, that continues to be the
case.
Geoff.
On 12/20/06, Geoff [email protected] wrote:
case.
Geoff.
Thx Geoff I also feel that this still is a great list but
(1) I have learned to think twice before discarding Tom’s POVs
and
(2) it might be now that we have to worry about keeping it like this
Cheers
R
–
“The real romance is out ahead and yet to come. The computer revolution
hasn’t started yet. Don’t be misled by the enormous flow of money into
bad
defacto standards for unsophisticated buyers using poor adaptations of
incomplete ideas.”
- Alan Kay
Having read those, I’d like to put that a little stronger:
- I would request that all participants of this community read (or at
least skim) that last one in particular. To make it easier, here’s an
short unbroken link:
http://rubyurl.com/YeY
Great article! A real must read for everyone here (and for everybody who
is or planning to become a member of any community).
I could not agree more with this article because basically I put it to
practice here at ruby-talk - I begun to answer some questions, despite
of still being a noob myself - and I have learned a lot during this.
I am still just a beginner and the answers are maybe not the most
perfect, but anyway they are corrected by the ‘adults’ here and it is a
sure way to learn a lot.
- I’d like to find a common spot that we could put something based on
the above (after we get some semblance of agreement on what it says)
that we could point new users and violators. Not really a charter, not
a mission statement, but some sort of creed of behavior. Something that
says “Be nice, be helpful, be respectful”, but in more words and with
concrete do’s and don’t’s and helpful examples.
100% agree.
There are very few experienced, long-time posters who I can think of
who would violate this creed. I feel that I’ve seen more than a few
semi-new-comers posting with serious attitude, and (in my opinion) it’s
reasonably important that we don’t just lead by example, but (as the
article says) take a zero-tolerance policy towards
abusive/high-and-might/asshole posts.
Well said. loop do { +1 }.
Cheers,
Peter
On Dec 23, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Edwin F. wrote:
I still like Eric Raymond’s classic FAQ:
Definitely some good advice in there, but I don’t care for the tone
of this article much.
James Edward G. II
Geoff wrote:
Kathy Sierra’s “How to Build a User Community: Part 1”
Creating Passionate Users: December 2006
how_to_build_a_.html
Having read those, I’d like to put that a little stronger:
-
I would request that all participants of this community read (or at
least skim) that last one in particular. To make it easier, here’s an
short unbroken link:
http://rubyurl.com/YeY -
I’d like to find a common spot that we could put something based on
the above (after we get some semblance of agreement on what it says)
that we could point new users and violators. Not really a charter, not
a mission statement, but some sort of creed of behavior. Something that
says “Be nice, be helpful, be respectful”, but in more words and with
concrete do’s and don’t’s and helpful examples.
There are very few experienced, long-time posters who I can think of
who would violate this creed. I feel that I’ve seen more than a few
semi-new-comers posting with serious attitude, and (in my opinion) it’s
reasonably important that we don’t just lead by example, but (as the
article says) take a zero-tolerance policy towards
abusive/high-and-might/asshole posts.
For the good of the community and national security. To fight the
terrorists. Won’t somebody please think of the children?